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Do you this solution would work?

Yes
116 (30.8%)
No
164 (43.5%)
Don't know
97 (25.7%)

Total Members Voted: 366

Author Topic: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing  (Read 30357 times)

Offline Mr. Admin

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Hi users

As you all might be aware that we had a heated discussion between authors and users from STP community regarding sharing of ebooks. So, we are starting this thread to try to find a solution which should help in resolving this for both authors and users.
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And here: You are not allowed to view links. Register or Login

Our aim: As the name and punchline suggests, is to simply promote sharing among users in our community for mutual benefit. Our focus was never on ebooks but has always been on non-commercial material. We are seeing a huge increase in activity in ebooks section in recent months but that's all natural and organic and not endorsed by us at all.

As a middle ground solution we offer:-

We request our users to:
 1. Be polite and respectful to the authors whose hard work we enjoy
 2. Buy books using the discount and special offers offered on the site, so that authors also get something back in return for their hard work.
 3. Leave reviews and feedback so that authors are able to understand their audience better.

Benefit for Users:
 1. Ebooks can stay on the site with no legal risks to the site or the user.
 2. More ebooks and content will be available to read.
 3. Ability to interact with authors and other like-minded readers around the world.

Note:
 1. No flaming please.
 2. Please consider author's position as well when posting your opinion.

This thread is just for users only. To post in this topic, please post your country of residence and post your reply.

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« Last Edit: July 29, 2011, 03:44 AM by admin »
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Offline Mr. Admin

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Offline jessadia

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2011, 12:57 PM »
In the  previous thread ("open discussion for authors and users regarding sharing ebooks") someone mentioned adding a donation or pay pal button to donate money either to authors or a charity so that we can "give back" to the authors. I would just like to say that I think this is an excellent idea. No, I do not think that it should be mandatory for everyone to donate but I do think that a lot of people would donate (me included). I know that this idea is not the answer to the problem and that no, it would not make the author's feel "ok" with this site but I think it's a start.

I also wonder if there is a way to get more author feedback? As of right now we only have two authors opinions- both of whom appear to be friends and share the same negative opinion of this website. It would be nice to hear what others had to say and if their opinion's differed at all or if they had any ideas/solutions. Any ideas?

Offline FireWings

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #2 on: July 29, 2011, 01:07 PM »
Hi jessadia :)

That's the problem...

We haven't had any feedback from authors on these ideas, neither suggestions from them :(

Plus, the only thing Park and McGuire asked was to not share their books here, and they didn't say we couldn't do that to other authors' books...

Also, I wonder if they agree with any suggestions if they apply to these other authors (donating, I mean)...
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Offline Aquakrystal

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #3 on: July 29, 2011, 03:10 PM »
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In the  previous thread ("open discussion for authors and users regarding sharing ebooks") someone mentioned adding a donation or pay pal button to donate money either to authors or a charity so that we can "give back" to the authors. I would just like to say that I think this is an excellent idea. No, I do not think that it should be mandatory for everyone to donate but I do think that a lot of people would donate (me included). I know that this idea is not the answer to the problem and that no, it would not make the author's feel "ok" with this site but I think it's a start.

I also wonder if there is a way to get more author feedback? As of right now we only have two authors opinions- both of whom appear to be friends and share the same negative opinion of this website. It would be nice to hear what others had to say and if their opinion's differed at all or if they had any ideas/solutions. Any ideas?

Yeah I thought it would be a good idea. That way the users can still have free books but authors can still make money :)

edit: So I voted don't know simply because I love the idea of free books still while giving the authors money through paypal or special deals for users, but I don't know if it will solve the issue completely since it seems like the few authors willing to talk feel like there is no compromise except to take all the free books down.
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Offline Mr. Admin

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2011, 07:14 PM »
Yeah, we agree with donation idea, have added it to the authors thread. We are contacting other authors who regularly send us removal requests. Hope to see more authors replying soon.

Keep the ideas coming guys :).
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Offline boots78

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2011, 12:10 AM »
As much as I would like to see otherwise, I do not think this solution will work..especially with the self-published authors. the 2 authors that have started this debate are so adament that we are "stealing" their work that they can not see it any other way. I love to share my ebook library that I have bought with my hard earned money and see no harm in it. In my mind it is no different than donating books to a library and having them "rented" out to thousands of other patrons. how is what we do any different. I do not share out of malicious intent, I don't share to earn a buck, I don't claim their work as my own, I simply love to read....

Offline Kione

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2011, 05:32 AM »
Honestly speaking, i can't see this working.
This is just one of the many forums and sites out there that share ebooks and whatnot. Those bigger sites don't even bother to find a solution simply because it's a moot point. The discussion about this is never ending. Users and authors have their own opinion about "sharing".
If there was a great solution for this, it would have been applied ages ago.
I just feel that these threads will just go on and on and on and on, until no one will reply anymore because everything just goes on around in circles.




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Offline destrodark

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2011, 06:02 AM »
I just want to say that thanks to this site I've actually found many authors/book that I would've never heard of otherwise & purchased many books (mostly indie authors). Most of the books available on here are also available on other sites that receive a much higher amount of traffic/downloads so I don't understand why there is such a big deal being made out of it on here? I would be completely up for the idea of discounts etc. Authors (specifically indie authors) rely on reviews. I don't know if anyone saw the post by Wren Emerson a few weeks back (the post was removed due to another authors book being on it so I don't think you can still see it) where she said that she'd seen her book on here & all she asked was that anyone who had downloaded it could please review it on amazon/goodreads etc as this is a big help to them.

Anyway, I just wanted to say my piece :-)

Offline Mr. Admin

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2011, 07:51 AM »
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As much as I would like to see otherwise, I do not think this solution will work..especially with the self-published authors. the 2 authors that have started this debate are so adament that we are "stealing" their work that they can not see it any other way.
I disagree on the self-authors point. As far as I understand, this solution is possible for mainly self-published authors, as they can get paid directly. Rest will have to get paid through their publishing company which might be a problem. But yeah agree that their hasn't been any support from authors and they are still missing users' view.

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Honestly speaking, i can't see this working.
This is just one of the many forums and sites out there that share ebooks and whatnot. Those bigger sites don't even bother to find a solution simply because it's a moot point. The discussion about this is never ending. Users and authors have their own opinion about "sharing".
It might take some time but the model can work and in any case it will surely help authors in many ways. We can also take the easy way out like other big sites but we believe that if we get support from authors and users then we can surely implement a solution.

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If there was a great solution for this, it would have been applied ages ago.
I just feel that these threads will just go on and on and on and on, until no one will reply anymore because everything just goes on around in circles.
I think copyright laws are not geared up for internet and they should be applied in different manner as it's totally different than print but by the time they change we have to find our own solutions.

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I just want to say that thanks to this site I've actually found many authors/book that I would've never heard of otherwise & purchased many books (mostly indie authors). Most of the books available on here are also available on other sites that receive a much higher amount of traffic/downloads so I don't understand why there is such a big deal being made out of it on here? I would be completely up for the idea of discounts etc. Authors (specifically indie authors) rely on reviews. I don't know if anyone saw the post by Wren Emerson a few weeks back (the post was removed due to another authors book being on it so I don't think you can still see it) where she said that she'd seen her book on here & all she asked was that anyone who had downloaded it could please review it on amazon/goodreads etc as this is a big help to them.
Very well said, that's exactly the message we are trying to convey to authors is that ebook sharing is giving them more distribution, and we are offering them options to be able to monetize it so that they can get paid for their labour and hard work. Yes, we and couple of users saw the message and as far as we know left some really good reviews as well. Again, well said. Cheers
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Offline hoga

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #9 on: July 30, 2011, 08:23 AM »
I live in Egypt if not for book sharing I wont be able to get these books(I wouldn't even have heard of them in the first place.)

Offline blue_mist_angel2001

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2011, 03:43 AM »
This site actually HELPS authors and readers give/get more access to quality literature. When I went to Africa, I didn't have access to new books as there weren't a lot of good bookstores where I was. My saving grace was this site where I downloaded SHARED books. When I got home, I bought these books on print and gave some of them as gifts and even recommended to my friends. This is free advertising if you really think about it.

SO TO THE AUTHORS, STOP THE HATING! BE HAPPY THAT YOUR BOOKS ARE GETTING NOTICED.

Offline gwenrb

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2011, 05:26 AM »
Hi all, I firstly would like to say that I would not have a problem with donating to authors for their books in fact I think it is a good idea. I don't want to get into a debate about the legality of it all but in my mind if I buy a book it becomes my property to lend to my friends or not it just feels as if corporations are trying to sqeeze every last cent out of us when they would be much more successful if they reduced the prices of books (carrot vs stick).There are a number of reasons I use this site (besides buying books), firstly to get to know authors insted of buying a pile of rubbish to try them out (which costs a small fortune), secondly as mentioned above a lot of books are not available outside of the USA and if they are they 5x to 10x the cost due to the exchange rates or inflated international prices - so please don't tell me the prices are reasonable.

Offline rowenabeaumontcherry

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2011, 05:55 AM »
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In the  previous thread ("open discussion for authors and users regarding sharing ebooks") someone mentioned adding a donation or pay pal button to donate money either to authors or a charity so that we can "give back" to the authors.


This is the "busker" model. Instead of the traditional method of honoring contracts and paying everyone involved in the production of a book, one puts authors out on the virtual street, and rewards them for their work only at ones whim. While busking may work for some musicians who may or may not play original works in subway stations, it does not work for authors who take six months to ten years to write and polish an original work.

Moreover, if you go with this model, who is to pay the editors and proof readers, photographers and cover artists, formatters etc etc? The begging in the street for donations model only works for self-published authors. When an author has to do her own proofing, formatting, editing, cover art, promo, marketing, book keeping, etc in addition to writing, quality will suffer.

Also, has it occurred to you that PayPal takes a large cut? Authors end up working for PayPal!

Offline rowenabeaumontcherry

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2011, 06:10 AM »
Another word about PayPal. I notice that readers are talking about the value of donating $1  to authors. Do you know that PayPal has a minimum fee of something like 44c plus a percentage of the actual amount?
 
I've sold my own (written-by-me) ebooks on a legitimate site for .99 and ended up with about .16 profit.

Offline Jynx

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2011, 06:48 AM »
Living in Africa, it is hard to get hold of nice books without either paying a small fortune, or importing them (yet again, at great cost). This site will not make me stop buying books, I tend to "test drive" authors I haven't heard of.
 I downloaded one book here by a certain author, and liked the style of writing so much that I immediately went online and ordered the entire series. Without having read that one book, I would not have bothered.
What is the difference between me and my local bookclub, where on person buys a book that 30 people get to read, and one person paying for an ebook and sharing it with others?

Offline Mr. Admin

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2011, 07:06 AM »
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This is the "busker" model. Instead of the traditional method of honoring contracts and paying everyone involved in the production of a book, one puts authors out on the virtual street, and rewards them for their work only at ones whim. While busking may work for some musicians who may or may not play original works in subway stations, it does not work for authors who take six months to ten years to write and polish an original work.

Moreover, if you go with this model, who is to pay the editors and proof readers, photographers and cover artists, formatters etc etc? The begging in the street for donations model only works for self-published authors. When an author has to do her own proofing, formatting, editing, cover art, promo, marketing, book keeping, etc in addition to writing, quality will suffer.

Also, has it occurred to you that PayPal takes a large cut? Authors end up working for PayPal!
Thanks Rowena, but to keep things peaceful, please post in authors thread only, we had a very heated discussion earlier with no conclusion. As replied in the authors thread, this solution might not be suitable for publishing houses.

See even you didn't follow the rules stated in first post of both threads, so easy to break rules sometimes that you don't even realise it :).

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Another word about PayPal. I notice that readers are talking about the value of donating $1  to authors. Do you know that PayPal has a minimum fee of something like 44c plus a percentage of the actual amount?
 
I've sold my own (written-by-me) ebooks on a legitimate site for .99 and ended up with about .16 profit.
Nobody said it would be $1 donation, it could be more as well, depends on user to user, details can be worked out once both sides agree on a solution.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2011, 07:29 AM by admin »
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Offline Mr. Admin

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2011, 08:21 AM »
Hi guys

Discussion with authors is getting heated again, looks like there's no real solution to it at the moment.

Conclusion so far
It looks like, the small number of authors responding here are not interested in trying anything really. If nothing changes in next 3 days then this thread will be closed. There's no point in taking us the hard yard if authors are not gonna support. At least we tried to think of a solution *sigh*.

In the end we will still be a free and open forum for all.

Thanks for your support and participation.

Cheers
STP Admin
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Offline UXGuy

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2011, 12:53 AM »
Hi Admin,

I'd like to thank you for your attempts to engage people in a fair and open manner around this very very touchy subject. Sure it would be easy to say, "this is such a big problem and there can't be a solution because if there was one, someone would have found it already", but if everyone thought like that, no meaningful problems would get solved. :-)

Sure, some authors have come on here and have tried to engage in a level headed and even manner (parkjessica is one that comes to mind), others have taken the opportunity to really rip into this site and its users and really have a chance to vent. I have no problems with that as long as appreciation is also shown to the site admin for actually giving you a place TO vent and even creating threads to discuss and find a compromise. The same goes for also my fellow users who have taken aim at authors.

Tell me another site that would willingly have this debate out in the open, without censure and without forceful removal of comments? I don't think you'd find any other sites who are as genuine about finding a solution that works. Many other site admins would either remove the post, delete the thread and not give it another thought.

I guess my final message is to say thanks for really trying to have an open and constructive discussion with the aim of finding a real solution.

Offline jessadia

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2011, 01:24 PM »
I must say "Well said!" UXGuy. This is one of the only site's that have have seen that are willing to actually hear both sides of the story and try to find a solution that aims to please both sides when there are a number of different (even easier) solutions. Such as telling the authors that there will be no change without allowing them to help find a solution, or just deleting all comments, or even, and more harshly, just stopping all the downloading/uploading of ebooks all together.

I just wanted to say "Thank you" to Admin and comment on the fact that you guys are great and that is why I will continue to use this site above all others. Also, I still support the donation idea and I would like to make a suggestion regarding this idea: Could the money, instead of or in addition to being giving to authors, be used to donate to public/school libraries in support of reading? If there are no authors who support this site or want to take part in anything we do/stand for can we use the donations to still support reading/writing in a positive way?

Offline anonymousprincess

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Re: Open discussion inviting all the users regarding ebook sharing
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2011, 11:33 PM »
We from the other part of the world who are unable to receive other books are willing to pay for books that we love to read however, please bear in mind (authors) that we are not stealing your work, but only appreciating it in the way that we can.  We thank this guys who selfishly share their books in order for us to get to view the other side of the world.  Do not think that because we get them free here is because we get the advantage of not paying it, but for me nothing can replace the stories from the pages of books that I can touch.  Sure we do not get to pay it but we enjoy reading them but we cannot display them to people to see how proud we are of having a collections of those great stories from great authors.  We are lucky if out of 1 of those 10 books is available here in our area or at least the we get to have the latest printed story of our favorite authors.  If you can distribute them to us in discounted prices we will be very grateful because you know it is a great deal for us to have your stories, to keep them and to share them too, to future generations. 
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